Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

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Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

Riccò Matteo
I quote Sonia and Marta

In our department, we use regularly SPSS on Windows-based and Mac OsX-based devices. Well: we have the same problem noticed by Marta and, moreover, the annoying situation of Macs able to deploy the new Mac OSX 10.6 and the actual impossibility to do it, 'cos SPSS/PASW would be unusable for not-well-explained-incompatibility-issues (bleah!). Now, personly, I'm questioning about buying a new Laptop, that I need in order to use decently the pachidermic SPSS 17, but eventually will be useless until a new version (requesting a simple downloadable patch is something beyond the possibilities of SPSS/PASW/IBM team?)

So: not only the issues associated with a new version every single year are not trivial (as stated by Sonia), but also the actually lacking support from the seller is not trivial, IMHO.

Tschuess

MR

SZQ
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Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

SZQ

I’m quite interested in hearing what others have to say on this.  At this moment I’m preparing training material to aid staff in transitioning to version 17 but I see 18 is already here.  My organization is still using version 13, and we manage to get our work done quite smoothly.  The yearly updates are annoying, and licenses have become very costly.  We too have had the debate about SPSS vs. Stata, and we do have several here who prefer and actually use Stata.  Before making the new versions of SPSS software available to all staff, I usually have to evaluate it, document changes and then train staff. This is all time consuming.  We never moved to version 15, because it was constantly crashing and was very slow.  I’m curious to know if others have had problems using version 17, particularly while running Windows XP.       

 

 

 

Suzette Audam

Research Associate/Data Manager

Guttmacher Institute

125 Maiden Lane, 7th floor

New YorkNY 10038 

phone: 212 248-1111 ext 2282

fax: 212 248-1951

 

 

 


From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Riccò Matteo
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:14 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

 

I quote Sonia and Marta

In our department, we use regularly SPSS on Windows-based and Mac OsX-based devices. Well: we have the same problem noticed by Marta and, moreover, the annoying situation of Macs able to deploy the new Mac OSX 10.6 and the actual impossibility to do it, 'cos SPSS/PASW would be unusable for not-well-explained-incompatibility-issues (bleah!). Now, personly, I'm questioning about buying a new Laptop, that I need in order to use decently the pachidermic SPSS 17, but eventually will be useless until a new version (requesting a simple downloadable patch is something beyond the possibilities of SPSS/PASW/IBM team?)

So: not only the issues associated with a new version every single year are not trivial (as stated by Sonia), but also the actually lacking support from the seller is not trivial, IMHO.

Tschuess


MR

 

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Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

John F Hall
Couldn't the universities and research institutes get together and buy them out, or at least arrange a permanent licence?  Then we can keep it stable and perhaps even take it back where it started: for management and analysis of data from questionnaire surveys!  I'm sticking to 15 as, apart from syntax changes since 1971, it's backward compatible with every file I've ever created.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

I’m quite interested in hearing what others have to say on this.  At this moment I’m preparing training material to aid staff in transitioning to version 17 but I see 18 is already here.  My organization is still using version 13, and we manage to get our work done quite smoothly.  The yearly updates are annoying, and licenses have become very costly.  We too have had the debate about SPSS vs. Stata, and we do have several here who prefer and actually use Stata.  Before making the new versions of SPSS software available to all staff, I usually have to evaluate it, document changes and then train staff. This is all time consuming.  We never moved to version 15, because it was constantly crashing and was very slow.  I’m curious to know if others have had problems using version 17, particularly while running Windows XP.       

 

 

 

Suzette Audam

Research Associate/Data Manager

Guttmacher Institute

125 Maiden Lane, 7th floor

New YorkNY 10038 

phone: 212 248-1111 ext 2282

fax: 212 248-1951

 

 

 


From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Riccò Matteo
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:14 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

 

I quote Sonia and Marta

In our department, we use regularly SPSS on Windows-based and Mac OsX-based devices. Well: we have the same problem noticed by Marta and, moreover, the annoying situation of Macs able to deploy the new Mac OSX 10.6 and the actual impossibility to do it, 'cos SPSS/PASW would be unusable for not-well-explained-incompatibility-issues (bleah!). Now, personly, I'm questioning about buying a new Laptop, that I need in order to use decently the pachidermic SPSS 17, but eventually will be useless until a new version (requesting a simple downloadable patch is something beyond the possibilities of SPSS/PASW/IBM team?)

So: not only the issues associated with a new version every single year are not trivial (as stated by Sonia), but also the actually lacking support from the seller is not trivial, IMHO.

Tschuess


MR

 

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Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

Larry Burriss

There seem to be some fundamental differences here between three groups of users:  classroom teachers who are teaching basic research methods, researchers and statisticians generally connected with universities, and business users.

 

When I began with SPSS back in mainframe/punchcard days, the program was for analyzing survey data, or maybe data from simple experiments.  Now, as is obvious from the name change, the focus is on business and predictive analysis.  Certainly I’m disappointed that  the software package I learned with has moved in a different direction, but I also understand that it’s a business designed to make money.  And the money probably isn’t coming from folks who teach basic research methods.

 

I’d be curious as to which modules classroom teachers who are teaching “research methods” and not “statistical methods” are using.  I bet it’s a pretty small subset of the entire package, which means it really isn’t necessary to get every upgrade.  Here’s my list:  t-test, chi-square, Pearson correlation, Spearman correlation, ANOVA, simple regression and simple factor analysis.

 

     / Larry /

 

LARRY L. BURRISS, Ph.D., J.D.

Professor

School of Journalism

Middle Tennessee State University

Murfreesboro, TN  37132

 

615-898-2983     [hidden email]     http://mtsu.edu/~lburriss

 

*****  This page made out of 100% recycled electrons  *****

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Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

Roberts, Michael
In reply to this post by SZQ

Hi,

 

From a non-academic user perspective I believe that aside from the annual cost of licensing, we do find some of the improvements to the basic SPSS/PASW package and a few add-ons, to be useful (for example, the ability to save large files as multiple Excel worksheets, multiple data editor windows, etc.), and can justify our expenditures because of the associated increase in productivity.  However, most of the changes associated with new releases are marginal, and do not add significantly to our output.  We are currently using version 17, on XP platforms with SP3, and do not experience any issues once relevant patches have been applied.  We do use new machines with either core 2 duo processors or dual core processors, and lots of RAM (>2gb).  Data files tend to be in excess of 1.5gb, also.

 

For what it’s worth, I must also note that our applications are overwhelmingly related to data manipulation and to a lesser extent, statistical analysis.  Therefore if there are issues with a similar hardware/OS combination, it may be due to running complex statistical analyses, rather than data manipulation.

 

Hope this helps

 

Mike

 

From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Audam, Suzette
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:59 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

 

I’m quite interested in hearing what others have to say on this.  At this moment I’m preparing training material to aid staff in transitioning to version 17 but I see 18 is already here.  My organization is still using version 13, and we manage to get our work done quite smoothly.  The yearly updates are annoying, and licenses have become very costly.  We too have had the debate about SPSS vs. Stata, and we do have several here who prefer and actually use Stata.  Before making the new versions of SPSS software available to all staff, I usually have to evaluate it, document changes and then train staff. This is all time consuming.  We never moved to version 15, because it was constantly crashing and was very slow.  I’m curious to know if others have had problems using version 17, particularly while running Windows XP.      

 

 

 

Suzette Audam

Research Associate/Data Manager

Guttmacher Institute

125 Maiden Lane, 7th floor

New YorkNY 10038 

phone: 212 248-1111 ext 2282

fax: 212 248-1951

 

 

 


From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Riccò Matteo
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:14 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

 

I quote Sonia and Marta

In our department, we use regularly SPSS on Windows-based and Mac OsX-based devices. Well: we have the same problem noticed by Marta and, moreover, the annoying situation of Macs able to deploy the new Mac OSX 10.6 and the actual impossibility to do it, 'cos SPSS/PASW would be unusable for not-well-explained-incompatibility-issues (bleah!). Now, personly, I'm questioning about buying a new Laptop, that I need in order to use decently the pachidermic SPSS 17, but eventually will be useless until a new version (requesting a simple downloadable patch is something beyond the possibilities of SPSS/PASW/IBM team?)

So: not only the issues associated with a new version every single year are not trivial (as stated by Sonia), but also the actually lacking support from the seller is not trivial, IMHO.

Tschuess


MR

 

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Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

Marta Garcia-Granero
In reply to this post by Larry Burriss
Larry Burriss wrote:

>
> There seem to be some fundamental differences here between three
> groups of users: classroom teachers who are teaching basic research
> methods, researchers and statisticians generally connected with
> universities, and business users.
>
> When I began with SPSS back in mainframe/punchcard days, the program
> was for analyzing survey data, or maybe data from simple experiments.
> Now, as is obvious from the name change, the focus is on business and
> predictive analysis. Certainly I’m disappointed that the software
> package I learned with has moved in a different direction, but I also
> understand that it’s a business designed to make money. And the money
> probably isn’t coming from folks who teach basic research methods.
>
> I’d be curious as to which modules classroom teachers who are teaching
> “research methods” and not “statistical methods” are using. I bet it’s
> a pretty small subset of the entire package, which means it really
> isn’t necessary to get every upgrade. Here’s my list: t-test,
> chi-square, Pearson correlation, Spearman correlation, ANOVA, simple
> regression and simple factor analysis.
>

In my case, besides those, I also teach:

- Survival analysis: Kaplan-Meier+Cox regression
- Multiple linear regression
- Partial correlations (parametric&non parametric)
- Multiple logistic regression (binary/nominal/ordinal)
- Poisson regression
- ANOVA models: latin square, split-plot, nested, repeated measures
(mixed factorial and pure within subjects factorial models),
bioequivalence studies
- Control charts
- Non-parametric testing, including multiple comparisons after K-W,
Friedman or Cochran tests (using macros)
- Agreement (including Passing-Bablok & Deming regression, Bland-Altman
limits of agreement, Lin's CCC, all these though macros)
- Meta-analysis (using macros)
- Bootstrapping (macros)

The last 4 blocks make my heart bleed a bit: I spent a lot of time
writing and verifying those macros. Moving to Stata means saying goodbye
to them.

Marta GG

--
For miscellaneous SPSS related statistical stuff, visit:
http://gjyp.nl/marta/

=====================
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[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
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Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

John F Hall
In reply to this post by Larry Burriss
My list is even earlier and restricted to survey analysis, as per Nie, Hull and Jenkins.
 
How about Data list, Compute, Recode, Frequencies, Crosstabs
 
The rest is statistics, not survey research, or as someone said, "There is only Physics: all the rest is bird-watching" and as my old boss the late Dr Mark Abrams used to say, "If it's worth saying you can say it in percentages!"  Our old mates in the public sector used to say, "Research is a substitute for action."  We used to reply, "..and SPSS is a substitute for thought!"
 
Thought I'd stir things up a bit, but this is really serious for us oldies.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

There seem to be some fundamental differences here between three groups of users:  classroom teachers who are teaching basic research methods, researchers and statisticians generally connected with universities, and business users.

 

When I began with SPSS back in mainframe/punchcard days, the program was for analyzing survey data, or maybe data from simple experiments.  Now, as is obvious from the name change, the focus is on business and predictive analysis.  Certainly I’m disappointed that  the software package I learned with has moved in a different direction, but I also understand that it’s a business designed to make money.  And the money probably isn’t coming from folks who teach basic research methods.

 

I’d be curious as to which modules classroom teachers who are teaching “research methods” and not “statistical methods” are using.  I bet it’s a pretty small subset of the entire package, which means it really isn’t necessary to get every upgrade.  Here’s my list:  t-test, chi-square, Pearson correlation, Spearman correlation, ANOVA, simple regression and simple factor analysis.

 

     / Larry /

 

LARRY L. BURRISS, Ph.D., J.D.

Professor

School of Journalism

Middle Tennessee State University

Murfreesboro, TN  37132

 

615-898-2983     [hidden email]     http://mtsu.edu/~lburriss

 

*****  This page made out of 100% recycled electrons  *****

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Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

Gary Oliver
In reply to this post by SZQ
Colleagues

My 2c:
1. Poor quality of SPSS code and design: SPSS developers seem to have made a mess of v15 and 16. They did not realise how difficult changes to the interface and reliability make it for users to use existing procedures
2a. Non-seamless licensing: The inability to retain a particular version seems to be motivate not by licensing but by revenue considerations
2b. Deployment: The cumbersome licensing seems to considerably slow down roll-out by central IT/IT Departments as well as individual licensees. SPSS short sightedly see this as a client problem.
The result is that SPSS is undermining the loyalty of the user base that it relies upon. They need to recognise there is a tipping effect.

Warm regards/gary
________________________________
From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Audam, Suzette [[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, 24 September 2009 12:59 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

I’m quite interested in hearing what others have to say on this.  At this moment I’m preparing training material to aid staff in transitioning to version 17 but I see 18 is already here.  My organization is still using version 13, and we manage to get our work done quite smoothly.  The yearly updates are annoying, and licenses have become very costly.  We too have had the debate about SPSS vs. Stata, and we do have several here who prefer and actually use Stata.  Before making the new versions of SPSS software available to all staff, I usually have to evaluate it, document changes and then train staff. This is all time consuming.  We never moved to version 15, because it was constantly crashing and was very slow.  I’m curious to know if others have had problems using version 17, particularly while running Windows XP.



Suzette Audam
Research Associate/Data Manager
Guttmacher Institute
125 Maiden Lane, 7th floor
New York, NY 10038
phone: 212 248-1111 ext 2282
fax: 212 248-1951



________________________________
From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Riccò Matteo
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:14 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

I quote Sonia and Marta

In our department, we use regularly SPSS on Windows-based and Mac OsX-based devices. Well: we have the same problem noticed by Marta and, moreover, the annoying situation of Macs able to deploy the new Mac OSX 10.6 and the actual impossibility to do it, 'cos SPSS/PASW would be unusable for not-well-explained-incompatibility-issues (bleah!). Now, personly, I'm questioning about buying a new Laptop, that I need in order to use decently the pachidermic SPSS 17, but eventually will be useless until a new version (requesting a simple downloadable patch is something beyond the possibilities of SPSS/PASW/IBM team?)

So: not only the issues associated with a new version every single year are not trivial (as stated by Sonia), but also the actually lacking support from the seller is not trivial, IMHO.

Tschuess

MR

=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
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Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

Evan Harrington, Ph.D.
In reply to this post by SZQ

I train students in using SPSS and I’ve always joked with them about the fact that by the time they get out in the “real world” whatever I teach them will be half obsolete because SPSS has a new version almost annually. As a joke it isn’t really funny but rather illustrates a problem where minor alterations to a product force users to adopt new software (and licenses) rather than simply using updates. I use Brace’s SPSS for Psychologists with my students, just got the new edition of the handbook for SPSS 16!

 

(One of my home computers has SPSS 11 on it, which still works reliably and accurately, even if not esthetically pleasing).

 

Evan R. Harrington, Ph.D.

Associate Professor

Forensic Thesis Track Director

The Chicago School of Professional Psychology

Department of Forensic Psychology

325 North Wells Street

Chicago, IL 60654

 

Phone: 312 329-6693

Fax: 312 661-1272


From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Audam, Suzette
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:59 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

 

I’m quite interested in hearing what others have to say on this.  At this moment I’m preparing training material to aid staff in transitioning to version 17 but I see 18 is already here.  My organization is still using version 13, and we manage to get our work done quite smoothly.  The yearly updates are annoying, and licenses have become very costly.  We too have had the debate about SPSS vs. Stata, and we do have several here who prefer and actually use Stata.  Before making the new versions of SPSS software available to all staff, I usually have to evaluate it, document changes and then train staff. This is all time consuming.  We never moved to version 15, because it was constantly crashing and was very slow.  I’m curious to know if others have had problems using version 17, particularly while running Windows XP.      

 

 

 

Suzette Audam

Research Associate/Data Manager

Guttmacher Institute

125 Maiden Lane, 7th floor

New YorkNY 10038 

phone: 212 248-1111 ext 2282

fax: 212 248-1951

 

 

 


From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Riccò Matteo
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:14 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

 

I quote Sonia and Marta

In our department, we use regularly SPSS on Windows-based and Mac OsX-based devices. Well: we have the same problem noticed by Marta and, moreover, the annoying situation of Macs able to deploy the new Mac OSX 10.6 and the actual impossibility to do it, 'cos SPSS/PASW would be unusable for not-well-explained-incompatibility-issues (bleah!). Now, personly, I'm questioning about buying a new Laptop, that I need in order to use decently the pachidermic SPSS 17, but eventually will be useless until a new version (requesting a simple downloadable patch is something beyond the possibilities of SPSS/PASW/IBM team?)

So: not only the issues associated with a new version every single year are not trivial (as stated by Sonia), but also the actually lacking support from the seller is not trivial, IMHO.

Tschuess


MR

 

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Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

Vanessa K
In reply to this post by Riccò Matteo
We have gone also back to using version 15. We do a lot of work with SPSS output in excel and for some reason version 17 and excel don't seem to like each very much, excel keeps on crashing with version 17 output whereas 15 doesn't.

Vanessa
-----Original Message-----
From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sonia Brandon
Sent: Wednesday, 23 September 2009 11:52 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [SPSSX-L] Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

We concur.

We are currently using SPSS 15 - and actually reverted back after installing 16
and 17 because it was taking too long to get all of the kinks worked out.  With
state budget cuts, we share many of the concerns expressed by Marta.  We won't
upgrade to a version that is too much of a hassle to install, and we will go to
SAS or Stata if it becomes too much of an issue.

I also am a longtime user (SPSS mainframe), and use SPSS daily in my work, as
does my entire staff.  I do not want to go away from SPSS, but the issues
associated with a new version every year are not trivial.

Sonia Brandon, Ph.D.
Director, Institutional Research
Mesa State College
1100 North Avenue
Grand Junction, CO  81501
phone: (970) 248-1884
fax:  (970) 248-1812
email: [hidden email]

>>> Marta García-Granero <[hidden email]> 09/23/09 7:37 AM >>>
This is a question I want to address to any spss-dot-com people who
might be checking the list.

Tomorrow (CET time) we have a meeting at the University of Navarra to
decide whether we keep on using SPSS/PASW or switch to a different
statistical package (Stata seems to be favored by some people). I am
right now gathering information from every participant (people who use
SPSS for teaching and research) about their grudges.

Main item is: everybody seems annoyed (very) by the policy of a new
version every year. We have to adapt our class notes, slides,
exercises... every year to the new version (since, many times, output
changes, screenshots of the program change too...). Some of them are not
only teachers, but busy researchers, and the time needed to modify the
teaching stuff is not easy to get. Some of them even said that if SPSS
15 can't be used for several more years, then they don't want the
program at all and will only use Stata (they are using it right now
along with SPSS 15).

Besides, computers used for teaching (500 is an underestimation of the
true number) are not brand new (rather old would be a better
description). Typical description of one of them, used for teaching
Office, SPSS, Procite...: 1 Gb RAM, 2 Ghz processor (no dual processors,
and let's not even mention quad processors), with Windows XP SP3. In
those computers, SPSS 15 runs quite well (although we are getting used
to interrupt the class briefly while some student has to recover from a
catastrophic error that closes suddenly SPSS 15, it happens up to 5
times in a 2 hours class, it can be irritating), but we tried PASW 17/18
and the results were awful: the program crawls, even with the simplest
t-test or ANOVA, because the hardware is well behind the software. Since
novice students don't benefit from the advantages of the new PASW
versions (Python, R, new syntax editor, programmability...), we are
wondering why we can't stick to SPSS 15 for at least 3-5 years, until
the turnover of the computers (to more powerful machines) is completed,
and new versions of PASW can be run without having to look at the screen
for a very long time until the output is finally delivered.

We don't need the newest PASW version on a brand new computer to teach
the fundamental of statistics to students, we'd rather have a reliable
(well, sort of) older version. Can we have that or should I surrender
tomorrow and say "all right people, let's use Stata"?.

Hoping I will not have to abandon my life long friend (my relation with
SPSS started with SPSS/PC+),
Marta García-Granero

--
For miscellaneous SPSS related statistical stuff, visit:
http://gjyp.nl/marta/

=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
INFO REFCARD

=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
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=====================
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Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

Debra Miller-2
I'd also like to say that the number of new versions in such a short period of time make it difficult, if not impossible, for bookstores to be aware of what the latest version is, and which books go along with those the latest versions.  It must also be difficult for authors to figure out what version to write for, when to write, and for how long their work will be valid.
 
I have never cared for SPSS.  I'm a syntax person and have not been able to make intuitive sense out of SPSS syntax, especially not from one version to another.  I much prefer SAS and want to learn STATA, but reluctantly use SPSS in organizations or with clients who use SPSS for the sake of maintaining a consistent application across multiple data users.
 
This past spring, I was working on a paper & presentation related to a project I had worked on for 2 years, when I realized one day that my home (15) and work (17) versions were incompatible.  I needed to quickly turn some work around but could not.  Took several weeks to recoup what had been done in version 15.
 
Are any SPSS corporate types listening to this conversational thread?
 
Debbie Miller
Mixed Methods Consulting

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Vanessa Koufomanolis <[hidden email]> wrote:
We have gone also back to using version 15. We do a lot of work with SPSS output in excel and for some reason version 17 and excel don't seem to like each very much, excel keeps on crashing with version 17 output whereas 15 doesn't.

Vanessa
-----Original Message-----
From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sonia Brandon
Sent: Wednesday, 23 September 2009 11:52 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [SPSSX-L] Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

We concur.

We are currently using SPSS 15 - and actually reverted back after installing 16
and 17 because it was taking too long to get all of the kinks worked out.  With
state budget cuts, we share many of the concerns expressed by Marta.  We won't
upgrade to a version that is too much of a hassle to install, and we will go to
SAS or Stata if it becomes too much of an issue.

I also am a longtime user (SPSS mainframe), and use SPSS daily in my work, as
does my entire staff.  I do not want to go away from SPSS, but the issues
associated with a new version every year are not trivial.

Sonia Brandon, Ph.D.
Director, Institutional Research
Mesa State College
1100 North Avenue
Grand Junction, CO  81501
phone: (970) 248-1884
fax:  (970) 248-1812
email: [hidden email]

>>> Marta García-Granero <[hidden email]> 09/23/09 7:37 AM >>>
This is a question I want to address to any spss-dot-com people who
might be checking the list.

Tomorrow (CET time) we have a meeting at the University of Navarra to
decide whether we keep on using SPSS/PASW or switch to a different
statistical package (Stata seems to be favored by some people). I am
right now gathering information from every participant (people who use
SPSS for teaching and research) about their grudges.

Main item is: everybody seems annoyed (very) by the policy of a new
version every year. We have to adapt our class notes, slides,
exercises... every year to the new version (since, many times, output
changes, screenshots of the program change too...). Some of them are not
only teachers, but busy researchers, and the time needed to modify the
teaching stuff is not easy to get. Some of them even said that if SPSS
15 can't be used for several more years, then they don't want the
program at all and will only use Stata (they are using it right now
along with SPSS 15).

Besides, computers used for teaching (500 is an underestimation of the
true number) are not brand new (rather old would be a better
description). Typical description of one of them, used for teaching
Office, SPSS, Procite...: 1 Gb RAM, 2 Ghz processor (no dual processors,
and let's not even mention quad processors), with Windows XP SP3. In
those computers, SPSS 15 runs quite well (although we are getting used
to interrupt the class briefly while some student has to recover from a
catastrophic error that closes suddenly SPSS 15, it happens up to 5
times in a 2 hours class, it can be irritating), but we tried PASW 17/18
and the results were awful: the program crawls, even with the simplest
t-test or ANOVA, because the hardware is well behind the software. Since
novice students don't benefit from the advantages of the new PASW
versions (Python, R, new syntax editor, programmability...), we are
wondering why we can't stick to SPSS 15 for at least 3-5 years, until
the turnover of the computers (to more powerful machines) is completed,
and new versions of PASW can be run without having to look at the screen
for a very long time until the output is finally delivered.

We don't need the newest PASW version on a brand new computer to teach
the fundamental of statistics to students, we'd rather have a reliable
(well, sort of) older version. Can we have that or should I surrender
tomorrow and say "all right people, let's use Stata"?.

Hoping I will not have to abandon my life long friend (my relation with
SPSS started with SPSS/PC+),
Marta García-Granero

--
For miscellaneous SPSS related statistical stuff, visit:
http://gjyp.nl/marta/

=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
INFO REFCARD

=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
INFO REFCARD

=====================
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[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
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Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

John F Hall
In reply to this post by Evan Harrington, Ph.D.
I've still got SPSS PC+ on one of mine, and also a pristine copy of the SCSS manual.
 
Seriously, how do you manage to keep 11?  When I needed to renew my licence, SPSS said they didn't maintain it any more and I had to have 15.   All my training materials are being converted (from SPSS-X 4 on a Vax cluster) and updated for 15.  Apart from a couple of unexplained crashes I've had no problems with it, although I don't like using the drop-down menus when syntax is so much quicker and easier. 
 
Now they're pushing 18.   Will they discontinue the free licence scheme for academic authors?  Am I wasting my time?
 
I've been using and teaching SPSS since 1972.  In the UK in those days most graduates in Sociology and related areas (and their teachers and supervisors) were woefully inadequate at anything involving measurement and numeracy (and were proud of it!).  Remedial postgraduate training in research methods and practical research tools was invariably necessary, but the real problem lay with their undergraduate training.
 
Nowadays things have improved immeasurably  and it could be argued that SPSS (and the original blue manual) played no small part in this transformation.  Whole generations of students in the social sciences have learned their data management and analysis skills via SPSS and (as with banks that were kind to them) have tended to stick to it.  Whole swathes of public and voluntary sector employers used to specify SPSS in job advertisements.
 
I used to tell my students that SPSS would help them get a job, and I was right.  Now that quantitative methods are at last being taken seriously everyone is talking about STATA instead. 
 
Why?  What happened?  When did the rot start?
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

I train students in using SPSS and I’ve always joked with them about the fact that by the time they get out in the “real world” whatever I teach them will be half obsolete because SPSS has a new version almost annually. As a joke it isn’t really funny but rather illustrates a problem where minor alterations to a product force users to adopt new software (and licenses) rather than simply using updates. I use Brace’s SPSS for Psychologists with my students, just got the new edition of the handbook for SPSS 16!

 

(One of my home computers has SPSS 11 on it, which still works reliably and accurately, even if not esthetically pleasing).

 

Evan R. Harrington, Ph.D.

Associate Professor

Forensic Thesis Track Director

The Chicago School of Professional Psychology

Department of Forensic Psychology

325 North Wells Street

Chicago, IL 60654

 

Phone: 312 329-6693

Fax: 312 661-1272


From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Audam, Suzette
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:59 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

 

I’m quite interested in hearing what others have to say on this.  At this moment I’m preparing training material to aid staff in transitioning to version 17 but I see 18 is already here.  My organization is still using version 13, and we manage to get our work done quite smoothly.  The yearly updates are annoying, and licenses have become very costly.  We too have had the debate about SPSS vs. Stata, and we do have several here who prefer and actually use Stata.  Before making the new versions of SPSS software available to all staff, I usually have to evaluate it, document changes and then train staff. This is all time consuming.  We never moved to version 15, because it was constantly crashing and was very slow.  I’m curious to know if others have had problems using version 17, particularly while running Windows XP.      

 

 

 

Suzette Audam

Research Associate/Data Manager

Guttmacher Institute

125 Maiden Lane, 7th floor

New YorkNY 10038 

phone: 212 248-1111 ext 2282

fax: 212 248-1951

 

 

 


From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Riccò Matteo
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:14 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

 

I quote Sonia and Marta

In our department, we use regularly SPSS on Windows-based and Mac OsX-based devices. Well: we have the same problem noticed by Marta and, moreover, the annoying situation of Macs able to deploy the new Mac OSX 10.6 and the actual impossibility to do it, 'cos SPSS/PASW would be unusable for not-well-explained-incompatibility-issues (bleah!). Now, personly, I'm questioning about buying a new Laptop, that I need in order to use decently the pachidermic SPSS 17, but eventually will be useless until a new version (requesting a simple downloadable patch is something beyond the possibilities of SPSS/PASW/IBM team?)

So: not only the issues associated with a new version every single year are not trivial (as stated by Sonia), but also the actually lacking support from the seller is not trivial, IMHO.

Tschuess


MR

 

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Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

Nils Braakmann
In reply to this post by Marta Garcia-Granero
Just a quick note on your 4 "bleeding hearts points" from someone who
converted to Stata some years ago (and is now able to use canned
procedures for standard econometric techniques that were developed
more than 20 years ago, e.g, robust/Huber-Eicker-White standard
errors):

Bootstrapping is available as a cannned procedure for almost all
commands from Stata version 9.2 onwards.
For meta-analysis you might want to look here:
http://www.stata.com/support/faqs/stat/meta.html
I don't know about your other two points but chances are generally
good that there is some user-written ado-File (available via Stata's
ssc-command) that does what you want and can be integrated into Stata
just like the commands that were shipped wih it. If not, programming
in Stata is way easier than in SPSS, in part because you have a fully
developed matrix-language (similar to, e.g., Gauss).

Regarding you other points: From my experience I would say that for
most procedures Stata has more capabilities, e.g., canned procedures
for competing risk models or generalized ordered models, small sample
exact poisson regressions, a command for doing GMM-estimation, etc.

So, just to give my 2 cents, I found the switching costs to pretty
low, in part because Stata's systax is pretty intuitive, and was more
than compensated by the enhanced capabilities in almost(?) all fields,
from data management to estimation (and it's way cheaper...).

Best,
Nils

2009/9/23 Marta García-Granero <[hidden email]>:

> Larry Burriss wrote:
>>
>> There seem to be some fundamental differences here between three
>> groups of users: classroom teachers who are teaching basic research
>> methods, researchers and statisticians generally connected with
>> universities, and business users.
>>
>> When I began with SPSS back in mainframe/punchcard days, the program
>> was for analyzing survey data, or maybe data from simple experiments.
>> Now, as is obvious from the name change, the focus is on business and
>> predictive analysis. Certainly I’m disappointed that the software
>> package I learned with has moved in a different direction, but I also
>> understand that it’s a business designed to make money. And the money
>> probably isn’t coming from folks who teach basic research methods.
>>
>> I’d be curious as to which modules classroom teachers who are teaching
>> “research methods” and not “statistical methods” are using. I bet it’s
>> a pretty small subset of the entire package, which means it really
>> isn’t necessary to get every upgrade. Here’s my list: t-test,
>> chi-square, Pearson correlation, Spearman correlation, ANOVA, simple
>> regression and simple factor analysis.
>>
>
> In my case, besides those, I also teach:
>
> - Survival analysis: Kaplan-Meier+Cox regression
> - Multiple linear regression
> - Partial correlations (parametric&non parametric)
> - Multiple logistic regression (binary/nominal/ordinal)
> - Poisson regression
> - ANOVA models: latin square, split-plot, nested, repeated measures
> (mixed factorial and pure within subjects factorial models),
> bioequivalence studies
> - Control charts
> - Non-parametric testing, including multiple comparisons after K-W,
> Friedman or Cochran tests (using macros)
> - Agreement (including Passing-Bablok & Deming regression, Bland-Altman
> limits of agreement, Lin's CCC, all these though macros)
> - Meta-analysis (using macros)
> - Bootstrapping (macros)
>
> The last 4 blocks make my heart bleed a bit: I spent a lot of time
> writing and verifying those macros. Moving to Stata means saying goodbye
> to them.
>
> Marta GG
>
> --
> For miscellaneous SPSS related statistical stuff, visit:
> http://gjyp.nl/marta/
>
> =====================
> To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
> [hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
> command. To leave the list, send the command
> SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
> For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
> INFO REFCARD
>

=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command
SIGNOFF SPSSX-L
For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
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Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

Garry Gelade
In reply to this post by Marta Garcia-Granero
Marta

If you had an existing SPSS licence, it used to be possible to convert to
outright owmership.  I kept a version of SPSS 8 for a few years.

This is an option that is rarely publicized, presumably for commercial
reasons, but its worth checking with SPSS to see if this policy is still in
force.

If so, you may be able to acquire a permanent licence for a small fee.

Garry Gelade

-----Original Message-----
From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Marta García-Granero
Sent: 23 September 2009 18:35
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

Larry Burriss wrote:

>
> There seem to be some fundamental differences here between three
> groups of users: classroom teachers who are teaching basic research
> methods, researchers and statisticians generally connected with
> universities, and business users.
>
> When I began with SPSS back in mainframe/punchcard days, the program
> was for analyzing survey data, or maybe data from simple experiments.
> Now, as is obvious from the name change, the focus is on business and
> predictive analysis. Certainly I’m disappointed that the software
> package I learned with has moved in a different direction, but I also
> understand that it’s a business designed to make money. And the money
> probably isn’t coming from folks who teach basic research methods.
>
> I’d be curious as to which modules classroom teachers who are teaching
> “research methods” and not “statistical methods” are using. I bet it’s
> a pretty small subset of the entire package, which means it really
> isn’t necessary to get every upgrade. Here’s my list: t-test,
> chi-square, Pearson correlation, Spearman correlation, ANOVA, simple
> regression and simple factor analysis.
>

In my case, besides those, I also teach:

- Survival analysis: Kaplan-Meier+Cox regression
- Multiple linear regression
- Partial correlations (parametric&non parametric)
- Multiple logistic regression (binary/nominal/ordinal)
- Poisson regression
- ANOVA models: latin square, split-plot, nested, repeated measures (mixed
factorial and pure within subjects factorial models), bioequivalence studies
- Control charts
- Non-parametric testing, including multiple comparisons after K-W, Friedman
or Cochran tests (using macros)
- Agreement (including Passing-Bablok & Deming regression, Bland-Altman
limits of agreement, Lin's CCC, all these though macros)
- Meta-analysis (using macros)
- Bootstrapping (macros)

The last 4 blocks make my heart bleed a bit: I spent a lot of time writing
and verifying those macros. Moving to Stata means saying goodbye to them.

Marta GG

--
For miscellaneous SPSS related statistical stuff, visit:
http://gjyp.nl/marta/

=====================
To manage your subscription to SPSSX-L, send a message to
[hidden email] (not to SPSSX-L), with no body text except the
command. To leave the list, send the command SIGNOFF SPSSX-L For a list of
commands to manage subscriptions, send the command INFO REFCARD

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=====================
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command. To leave the list, send the command
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For a list of commands to manage subscriptions, send the command
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Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

Evan Harrington, Ph.D.
In reply to this post by John F Hall

For me rot lies in the fact that I can do basic behavioral science statistics using a calculator and I come up with the same answers as I do when I use SPSS11 or 17. The new interface is much nicer than in Version 11, and the graphics are a huge step forward, but I simply see no reason to make users pay for improvements in those aspects of a product that they never use. I also have always joked with students that they should buy stock in SPSS, because of the aggressive business model.

 

It is true that SPSS contributed to the advent of easy computing and data analysis that we now enjoy (I originally learned SAS code on mainframe computers – frustrating!)

 

My feeling is that it would be great to have the ability to choose a basic data analysis computing product that never changes (SPSS-Lite?) or pay for the more advanced program. The set up now is to have the main product full of bells and whistles, with extra bells and whistles available as add-on modules.

 

 

Evan R. Harrington, Ph.D.

Associate Professor

Forensic Thesis Track Director

The Chicago School of Professional Psychology

Department of Forensic Psychology

325 North Wells Street

Chicago, IL 60654

 

Phone: 312 329-6693

Fax: 312 661-1272


From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of John F Hall
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:34 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

 

I've still got SPSS PC+ on one of mine, and also a pristine copy of the SCSS manual.

 

Seriously, how do you manage to keep 11?  When I needed to renew my licence, SPSS said they didn't maintain it any more and I had to have 15.   All my training materials are being converted (from SPSS-X 4 on a Vax cluster) and updated for 15.  Apart from a couple of unexplained crashes I've had no problems with it, although I don't like using the drop-down menus when syntax is so much quicker and easier. 

 

Now they're pushing 18.   Will they discontinue the free licence scheme for academic authors?  Am I wasting my time?

 

I've been using and teaching SPSS since 1972.  In the UK in those days most graduates in Sociology and related areas (and their teachers and supervisors) were woefully inadequate at anything involving measurement and numeracy (and were proud of it!).  Remedial postgraduate training in research methods and practical research tools was invariably necessary, but the real problem lay with their undergraduate training.

 

Nowadays things have improved immeasurably  and it could be argued that SPSS (and the original blue manual) played no small part in this transformation.  Whole generations of students in the social sciences have learned their data management and analysis skills via SPSS and (as with banks that were kind to them) have tended to stick to it.  Whole swathes of public and voluntary sector employers used to specify SPSS in job advertisements.

 

I used to tell my students that SPSS would help them get a job, and I was right.  Now that quantitative methods are at last being taken seriously everyone is talking about STATA instead. 

 

Why?  What happened?  When did the rot start?

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:09 AM

Subject: Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

 

I train students in using SPSS and I’ve always joked with them about the fact that by the time they get out in the “real world” whatever I teach them will be half obsolete because SPSS has a new version almost annually. As a joke it isn’t really funny but rather illustrates a problem where minor alterations to a product force users to adopt new software (and licenses) rather than simply using updates. I use Brace’s SPSS for Psychologists with my students, just got the new edition of the handbook for SPSS 16!

 

(One of my home computers has SPSS 11 on it, which still works reliably and accurately, even if not esthetically pleasing).

 

Evan R. Harrington, Ph.D.

Associate Professor

Forensic Thesis Track Director

The Chicago School of Professional Psychology

Department of Forensic Psychology

325 North Wells Street

Chicago, IL 60654

 

Phone: 312 329-6693

Fax: 312 661-1272


From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Audam, Suzette
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:59 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

 

I’m quite interested in hearing what others have to say on this.  At this moment I’m preparing training material to aid staff in transitioning to version 17 but I see 18 is already here.  My organization is still using version 13, and we manage to get our work done quite smoothly.  The yearly updates are annoying, and licenses have become very costly.  We too have had the debate about SPSS vs. Stata, and we do have several here who prefer and actually use Stata.  Before making the new versions of SPSS software available to all staff, I usually have to evaluate it, document changes and then train staff. This is all time consuming.  We never moved to version 15, because it was constantly crashing and was very slow.  I’m curious to know if others have had problems using version 17, particularly while running Windows XP.      

 

 

 

Suzette Audam

Research Associate/Data Manager

Guttmacher Institute

125 Maiden Lane, 7th floor

New YorkNY 10038 

phone: 212 248-1111 ext 2282

fax: 212 248-1951

 

 

 


From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Riccò Matteo
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:14 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

 

I quote Sonia and Marta

In our department, we use regularly SPSS on Windows-based and Mac OsX-based devices. Well: we have the same problem noticed by Marta and, moreover, the annoying situation of Macs able to deploy the new Mac OSX 10.6 and the actual impossibility to do it, 'cos SPSS/PASW would be unusable for not-well-explained-incompatibility-issues (bleah!). Now, personly, I'm questioning about buying a new Laptop, that I need in order to use decently the pachidermic SPSS 17, but eventually will be useless until a new version (requesting a simple downloadable patch is something beyond the possibilities of SPSS/PASW/IBM team?)

So: not only the issues associated with a new version every single year are not trivial (as stated by Sonia), but also the actually lacking support from the seller is not trivial, IMHO.

Tschuess


MR

 

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Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

ajayohri
Buying stock is a good idea considering the premium paid for by IBM
There is always the r project and I sometimes feel open source is even more aggressive in selling 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 24, 2009, at 2:04 PM, Evan Harrington <[hidden email]> wrote:

For me rot lies in the fact that I can do basic behavioral science statistics using a calculator and I come up with the same answers as I do when I use SPSS11 or 17. The new interface is much nicer than in Version 11, and the graphics are a huge step forward, but I simply see no reason to make users pay for improvements in those aspects of a product that they never use. I also have always joked with students that they should buy stock in SPSS, because of the aggressive business model.

 

It is true that SPSS contributed to the advent of easy computing and data analysis that we now enjoy (I originally learned SAS code on mainframe computers – frustrating!)

 

My feeling is that it would be great to have the ability to choose a basic data analysis computing product that never changes (SPSS-Lite?) or pay for the more advanced program. The set up now is to have the main product full of bells and whistles, with extra bells and whistles available as add-on modules.

 

 

Evan R. Harrington, Ph.D.

Associate Professor

Forensic Thesis Track Director

The Chicago School of Professional Psychology

Department of Forensic Psychology

325 North Wells Street

Chicago, IL 60654

 

Phone: 312 329-6693

Fax: 312 661-1272


From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of John F Hall
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:34 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

 

I've still got SPSS PC+ on one of mine, and also a pristine copy of the SCSS manual.

 

Seriously, how do you manage to keep 11?  When I needed to renew my licence, SPSS said they didn't maintain it any more and I had to have 15.   All my training materials are being converted (from SPSS-X 4 on a Vax cluster) and updated for 15.  Apart from a couple of unexplained crashes I've had no problems with it, although I don't like using the drop-down menus when syntax is so much quicker and easier. 

 

Now they're pushing 18.   Will they discontinue the free licence scheme for academic authors?  Am I wasting my time?

 

I've been using and teaching SPSS since 1972.  In the UK in those days most graduates in Sociology and related areas (and their teachers and supervisors) were woefully inadequate at anything involving measurement and numeracy (and were proud of it!).  Remedial postgraduate training in research methods and practical research tools was invariably necessary, but the real problem lay with their undergraduate training.

 

Nowadays things have improved immeasurably  and it could be argued that SPSS (and the original blue manual) played no small part in this transformation.  Whole generations of students in the social sciences have learned their data management and analysis skills via SPSS and (as with banks that were kind to them) have tended to stick to it.  Whole swathes of public and voluntary sector employers used to specify SPSS in job advertisements.

 

I used to tell my students that SPSS would help them get a job, and I was right.  Now that quantitative methods are at last being taken seriously everyone is talking about STATA instead. 

 

Why?  What happened?  When did the rot start?

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:09 AM

Subject: Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

 

I train students in using SPSS and I’ve always joked with them about the fact that by the time they get out in the “real world” whatever I teach them will be half obsolete because SPSS has a new version almost annually. As a joke it isn’t really funny but rather illustrates a problem where minor alterations to a product force users to adopt new software (and licenses) rather than simply using updates. I use Brace’s SPSS for Psychologists with my students, just got the new edition of the handbook for SPSS 16!

 

(One of my home computers has SPSS 11 on it, which still works reliably and accurately, even if not esthetically pleasing).

 

Evan R. Harrington, Ph.D.

Associate Professor

Forensic Thesis Track Director

The Chicago School of Professional Psychology

Department of Forensic Psychology

325 North Wells Street

Chicago, IL 60654

 

Phone: 312 329-6693

Fax: 312 661-1272


From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Audam, Suzette
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:59 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

 

I’m quite interested in hearing what others have to say on this.  At this moment I’m preparing training material to aid staff in transitioning to version 17 but I see 18 is already here.  My organization is still using version 13, and we manage to get our work done quite smoothly.  The yearly updates are annoying, and licenses have become very costly.  We too have had the debate about SPSS vs. Stata, and we do have several here who prefer and actually use Stata.  Before making the new versions of SPSS software available to all staff, I usually have to evaluate it, document changes and then train staff. This is all time consuming.  We never moved to version 15, because it was constantly crashing and was very slow.  I’m curious to know if others have had problems using version 17, particularly while running Windows XP.      

 

 

 

Suzette Audam

Research Associate/Data Manager

Guttmacher Institute

125 Maiden Lane, 7th floor

New YorkNY 10038 

phone: 212 248-1111 ext 2282

fax: 212 248-1951

 

 

 


From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Riccò Matteo
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:14 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

 

I quote Sonia and Marta

In our department, we use regularly SPSS on Windows-based and Mac OsX-based devices. Well: we have the same problem noticed by Marta and, moreover, the annoying situation of Macs able to deploy the new Mac OSX 10.6 and the actual impossibility to do it, 'cos SPSS/PASW would be unusable for not-well-explained-incompatibility-issues (bleah!). Now, personly, I'm questioning about buying a new Laptop, that I need in order to use decently the pachidermic SPSS 17, but eventually will be useless until a new version (requesting a simple downloadable patch is something beyond the possibilities of SPSS/PASW/IBM team?)

So: not only the issues associated with a new version every single year are not trivial (as stated by Sonia), but also the actually lacking support from the seller is not trivial, IMHO.

Tschuess


MR

 

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Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

Mike
----- Original Message -----
On Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:36 PM,  AJay Ohri wrote:
>Buying stock is a good idea considering the premium paid for by IBM

Not everyone thinks so.  Consider:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/152434-is-ibm-s-acquisition-of-spss-too-late?source=yahoo

Will SPSS with IBM behind it be able to challenge SAS or will SPSS become the
equivalent of Lotus (anyone remember the 1-2-3 spreadsheet?) or be dropped
completely down the line.

>There is always the r project and I sometimes feel open source is even more aggressive in selling

Really?  How much are the shares issued by the R project?

-Mike Palij
New York University
[hidden email]


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On Sep 24, 2009, at 2:04 PM, Evan Harrington <[hidden email]> wrote:


For me rot lies in the fact that I can do basic behavioral science statistics using a calculator and I come up with the same answers as I do when I use SPSS11 or 17. The new interface is much nicer than in Version 11, and the graphics are a huge step forward, but I simply see no reason to make users pay for improvements in those aspects of a product that they never use. I also have always joked with students that they should buy stock in SPSS, because of the aggressive business model.

It is true that SPSS contributed to the advent of easy computing and data analysis that we now enjoy (I originally learned SAS code on mainframe computers – frustrating!)

My feeling is that it would be great to have the ability to choose a basic data analysis computing product that never changes (SPSS-Lite?) or pay for the more advanced program. The set up now is to have the main product full of bells and whistles, with extra bells and whistles available as add-on modules.


Evan R. Harrington, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Forensic Thesis Track Director
The Chicago School of Professional Psychology
Department of Forensic Psychology
325 North Wells Street
Chicago, IL 60654

Phone: 312 329-6693
Fax: 312 661-1272



From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of John F Hall
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:34 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

I've still got SPSS PC+ on one of mine, and also a pristine copy of the SCSS manual.

Seriously, how do you manage to keep 11?  When I needed to renew my licence, SPSS said they didn't maintain it any more and I had to have 15.   All my training materials are being converted (from SPSS-X 4 on a Vax cluster) and updated for 15.  Apart from a couple of unexplained crashes I've had no problems with it, although I don't like using the drop-down menus when syntax is so much quicker and easier.

Now they're pushing 18.   Will they discontinue the free licence scheme for academic authors?  Am I wasting my time?

I've been using and teaching SPSS since 1972.  In the UK in those days most graduates in Sociology and related areas (and their teachers and supervisors) were woefully inadequate at anything involving measurement and numeracy (and were proud of it!).  Remedial postgraduate training in research methods and practical research tools was invariably necessary, but the real problem lay with their undergraduate training.

Nowadays things have improved immeasurably  and it could be argued that SPSS (and the original blue manual) played no small part in this transformation.  Whole generations of students in the social sciences have learned their data management and analysis skills via SPSS and (as with banks that were kind to them) have tended to stick to it.  Whole swathes of public and voluntary sector employers used to specify SPSS in job advertisements.

I used to tell my students that SPSS would help them get a job, and I was right.  Now that quantitative methods are at last being taken seriously everyone is talking about STATA instead.

Why?  What happened?  When did the rot start?


----- Original Message -----
From: Evan Harrington
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

I train students in using SPSS and I’ve always joked with them about the fact that by the time they get out in the “real world” whatever I teach them will be half obsolete because SPSS has a new version almost annually. As a joke it isn’t really funny but rather illustrates a problem where minor alterations to a product force users to adopt new software (and licenses) rather than simply using updates. I use Brace’s SPSS for Psychologists with my students, just got the new edition of the handbook for SPSS 16!

(One of my home computers has SPSS 11 on it, which still works reliably and accurately, even if not esthetically pleasing).

Evan R. Harrington, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Forensic Thesis Track Director
The Chicago School of Professional Psychology
Department of Forensic Psychology
325 North Wells Street
Chicago, IL 60654

Phone: 312 329-6693
Fax: 312 661-1272



From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Audam, Suzette
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:59 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

I’m quite interested in hearing what others have to say on this.  At this moment I’m preparing training material to aid staff in transitioning to version 17 but I see 18 is already here.  My organization is still using version 13, and we manage to get our work done quite smoothly.  The yearly updates are annoying, and licenses have become very costly.  We too have had the debate about SPSS vs. Stata, and we do have several here who prefer and actually use Stata.  Before making the new versions of SPSS software available to all staff, I usually have to evaluate it, document changes and then train staff. This is all time consuming.  We never moved to version 15, because it was constantly crashing and was very slow.  I’m curious to know if others have had problems using version 17, particularly while running Windows XP.



Suzette Audam
Research Associate/Data Manager
Guttmacher Institute
125 Maiden Lane, 7th floor
New York, NY 10038
phone: 212 248-1111 ext 2282
fax: 212 248-1951






From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Riccò Matteo
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:14 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

I quote Sonia and Marta

In our department, we use regularly SPSS on Windows-based and Mac OsX-based devices. Well: we have the same problem noticed by Marta and, moreover, the annoying situation of Macs able to deploy the new Mac OSX 10.6 and the actual impossibility to do it, 'cos SPSS/PASW would be unusable for not-well-explained-incompatibility-issues (bleah!). Now, personly, I'm questioning about buying a new Laptop, that I need in order to use decently the pachidermic SPSS 17, but eventually will be useless until a new version (requesting a simple downloadable patch is something beyond the possibilities of SPSS/PASW/IBM team?)

So: not only the issues associated with a new version every single year are not trivial (as stated by Sonia), but also the actually lacking support from the seller is not trivial, IMHO.

Tschuess

MR

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Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?

John F Hall
In reply to this post by John F Hall
It's for authors of SPSS text books.    I'm using it to produce e-tutorials.  Licence has to be renewed every six months.  You can't use SPSS for personal gain and it's a good idea to keep SPSS supplied with copies of everything.  I sent a longer reply to David, including copies of the enrolment and licence forms.  If anyone wants to see these, I'll happily forward them direct.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: Can we "freeze" at SPSS 15 for several years?


This is the first time I have ever heard of SPSS giving free licenses to authors. I am wondering - authors of what? Anything? How does one go about getting one? Thanks, David Greenberg, Sociology Department, NYU